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A Talk With Trump's Feng Shui Expert


Donald Trump once had a feng shui master back in the mid-1990s when he was building the Trump International Hotel and Tower just off Central Park. Mr. Trump consulted with Pun-Yin who is an expert in the Chinese practice of trying to harmonize with one's surroundings. Master Pun-Yin, as she's called, joins us now in our studios. Thanks so much for being with us.

PUN-YIN: Oh, you're welcome, my honor.

SIMON: When you worked with Donald Trump, did you get the impression that he bought into feng shui or he just thought it was a good idea for business reasons?

PUN-YIN: He needed to make his brand known to the Chinese. And so that's why, you know, it was for a marketing purpose.

SIMON: Did you meet him?



PUN-YIN: Well, you know, anyone who is useful to him he will be nice and charming to, and I was fortunate to be in that category.

SIMON: Master Pun-Yin, have you - have you seen pictures of the Oval Office over the years?


SIMON: Well, this - all right, let me get you because I did want to ask you whoever the next president of the United States is, would you - would you give him or her advice on how to rearrange that office and in accord with your feng shui principles?

PUN-YIN: The next president better to smart and balance the energy in the space. Anyone gets into the office, unless the feng shui is improved, will always have divisions that is self-destruct.

SIMON: The couple of times I've been in there, you notice immediately that the desk is not facing the window.

PUN-YIN: And it's facing the fireplace, which is of the fire element. And that was bad for Bill Clinton's Chinese astrology chart. Now, you know, for the two candidates we have now, Hillary Clinton has all five elements, more balance. She could handle that. But Mr. Trump has already imbalanced Chinese astrology chart, missing the water and intents (ph) in the Earth energy. That's why he holds grudges. And he's very aggressive because there's no softening character. And that's why Ivanka and Kellyanne is the most important women in his life and in his aspiration.

SIMON: Ivanka Trump and Kellyanne Conway's his campaign manager.

PUN-YIN: Right because both are the yin energy woman representation that softens him. So if people want a good president like Donald Trump in the future, it's almost needs to be, you know, a package deal. These two strong women works with him.

SIMON: While we have you here, I'm looking through a glass in our studio at our engineer, so I have good feng shui, but you, unfortunately, have to look at me and a wall. So we're not putting you in a good position for feng shui, are we?

PUN-YIN: You have very positive energy. So, you know...

SIMON: Well, thank you.

PUN-YIN: ...You lift the studio. And this is the real - I mean, the authentic form of feng shui is like that. The person have good energy is 50 percent off the picture. The good location of feng shui makes the person whole. And Trump, you know, has the energy that is something that really requires good feng shui around him and nature and good woman to neutralize him.

SIMON: Feng shui Master Pun-Yin, thanks so much for being with us.

PUN-YIN: Well, you're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.